Wrath just might be too easy...

there are more then just raiding and kill bosses, Blizzard has seen to that you arent left alone if you dont want to raid, there is always things to do do improve and that the radiers cant do either, spending time in places when you are free and do what you want to do.

Also, most of the people who say that this isn't too easy... have you really worked for what you have? sure, you just didn't get very far... most of you guys havn't killed the first boss of sunwell and maybe touched the trash a bit.

Being the kind of guy that I am I think anything is too easy untill I can't do it, and then it's perfect. it gives me something to strive to beat in a game. a goal that me and my friends can work toward.

Now if I clear all that a game has to offer in a week... I feel kind of bad and I tr to find a new game a much harder game.

and jsut a heads up I don't care much for spelling

The problem with calling Wrath too easy because of this: All of these encounters were on beta.. so there was no learning bosses process, just looking up strategies, heck Naxx isn't much different than it was in Pre-BC...

If you make the end game content easy... or rather, a joke... you do one big thing:

You take out the challenge and anything that may have felt rewarding about any effort you put in. If 8 million / 11 million players have cleared 25 man Icecrown within a month or so, 7 million of them are going to go "wow... there is now NOTHING for me to do... I've done EVERY cause this game is a JOKE now..." and eventually get so utterly bored of it, they just stop playing.

Now you may argue "well PvP," but I'm sorry, just like with raiding, the amount of 'hardcore' PvPers will always be a smaller bracket, just like the 'hardcore' raiders.

TL;DR

Easy content gets boring faster than wiping on hard content.

I had left wow not very long after BC was out. I wanted to come back for some time now but knew I would be far behind in progression so I would not be able to raid with most of my guild.

With WoTLK it gives me a chance to come back and be a part of the guilds raiders again. If I needed to go back and gear up in BC just to play in a WoTLK group I would have never come back.

By the time everyone is 80 and doing raids would you think a new player could find a raid group for any of the BC stuff? They would be stuck and left out in WoTLK.

My whole problem with the "casual" vs "hardcore" debate is that a guild like Ensidia that clears everything that can be cleared in WotLK in the first week and cries about it being to easy has no real baring for most of the players that are out there.  They bring professional gamers, completely geared out in T6 and Sunwell loot and then gear up from that and complain that it is too easy?  

I play in a family friendly raiding guild.  We have cleared most all of SSC, TK and BT except final bosses. Dipped our toe into Sunwell as WotLK was about to come out.  This is basically the same story in Original WoW as we were dipping our toe into Naxx as TBC came out.  The core of our guild has been playing since launch and we enjoy playing together.  All of our toons were geared enough to move onto "better" guilds that were farther along in the endgame progression, but chose to stay with our friends and try to go as far as possible.  Downing new bosses with friends that you have raided with for 4 years is far more gratifying then any joining of the two best guilds in WoW could ever imagine.

I reached level 80 in less than a week and am now waiting for more of our guild to join me.  As usual, healers have always been our problem and we will have to wait.  

Making the end game accessible to more of the 11 million players will not only make that number grow, but will make the game more fun.  And isn't that what we are playing for?  To have fun?

For all you that are racing through the endgame and are already waiting for the next patch all I can say is "Are you having fun yet?"

I am a casual player, I have one of every class and I enjoy playing all of them. I don't care that I did not see all of the BC content, not even close. I had a blast from Kara to ZA, and that's as much as I saw.

Perhaps I'll get to see more of BC now that I can make the gear requirements without farming/raiding nonstop to be sufficiently geared to walk in the door.

I don't mind that! I'm not complaining at all. Kudos to the people who did see it all and bust their butts to do so.

With that said, I simply don't want to run out of content, and I know I will not, there is much I haven't done even pre-BC. Not to mention the achievements. So, I can understand the more serious players concern, they also don't want to run out of content. I was quite surprised to see guilds doing so much so quickly. I remarked that I wouldn't want to have rushed through it so fast, I like to poke around and explore. I like to fish and cook and craft.

I don't think that Bliz will let those hardcore players down, they've always been good at addressing issues. No worries :)

Ok back to picking flowers.

I don't see how it's casual with WotLK. It's exactly like SunWell when that opened up. Everyone trying to do the same thing all at once. Players ganking mobs right before a DOT went off, forming lines around an end quest target. Just annoying. Only thing to do is do something else for a few days until the crowds move on to a new zone.

As for the instances, my raiding guild never finished SSC. So I would be over the moon if the end game raiding was easier and didn't rely heavily on gear that the next instance UP would give you. After grinding and questing to get to another level cap, turning down the 'difficultly' mode will be welcome by many.

just my opinion btw im sure all of you have valid points and whatnot (just trying to save myself from the flame im likely to get from somebody =D)

Honestly, who cares if it's too easy? As a player at 80, you can improve your gear without needing some over-the-top hardcore endgame guild that requires perfect raiding attendance by all of its members. I spent all of BC raiding and cleared Kara to KJ. That being said, I definitely don't mind being able to easily clear the instances/heroics/raids and get gear. I prefer that to having to spend 4 hours or more a night 5 days a week raiding. Does anyone truly realize how much time goes into hardcore raiding? Personally, I spent 150 days of my life raiding at level 70, and even more long ago at 60. I came close to quitting before and after the release of SWP, as the hardcore nature of raiding was just burning me out. It became more of a job to log on and raid with a bunch of mostly annoying (save a few) people that I didn't even know, and sit for hours at a time wiping on the same boss over and over again. I'm not the only person that I know that either thought about or actually quit due to the time WoW required. However, the casual appeal actually encouraged me to buy WotLK and continue playing. Now, players don't have to waste away in front of their computers all day just to have items in a video game that is supposed to be entertaining, and not job-like. People can actually do whatever the hell they want IRL, and have good gear on their characters too! How awesome! Oh, and if your enormous e-peen has been dramatically affected by this, then stop playing WoW and go away. If WoW is that important to you, and you feel that in order to make up for your lack of confidence in IRL you have to be better or more successful in a video game than anyone else, then...you are a very sad case indeed. This isn't aimed at all hardcore raiders/PvPers, but I'm sure everyone knows what kind of people I'm talking about. Anyways, all the Pre-TBC and BC raiders got to have their time as the "omg your gear is so good can i sux ur e-peen" people, and now it's over. After 4 years of catering to only the hardcore WoW addicts (although they slowly added more and more casual aspects, and smartly I might add), Blizzard is actually making "success" in WoW a possibility for casual playing. Hey, and on the bright side, now everyone who used to spend all of their time either raiding/PvPing or farming mats for raids can do productive things in their life like getting a job, or going to school (and passing). Or maybe pursuing a meaningful relationship with the opposite sex. And of course, there always is the option of going outside one's house (if that applies). Not to say that it's impossible to do any of these things while maintaining one's status as a hardcore raider in some top end guild, casual playing definitely makes this easier!  And on a final note, if you bought WotLK and are disappointed by the so-called easiness of it, just remember that it's merely a video game and meant to be enjoyed by everyone. Just play it and enjoy the lore, cool graphics, or slaughtering countless numbers of Horde/Alliance (whatever floats your boat).

Correction: 2 and 1/2 men.

I think people are missing the point.

It's not about hardcore vs casual players. Yes, fun is the ultimate goal for both hardcore gamers and casual players alike. Problem is, alot of the fun you get out of a game comes with the difficulty of play. Something too hard is frustrating, people quit or give up. However, if it's too easy, theres no sense of accomplishment, its not fun and results in players giving it up for a game with more challenge.

Keep in mind theres "regular" and "heroic" modes for a reason. Ideally fresh players or the casual types can have an enjoyable experience in the "regular" whilst the 'hardcore' can enjoy a real challenge in "Heroic."

From my personal experience, my guild has been 10 manning the 25 man content. Thats a problem. (They are experienced, T6 geared raiders but aren't worth 1 and 1/2 men each.)

Keeping regular easy is fine, let casual players have their fun, but you need to be able to challenge your devoted fans as well.

I have the agree with moonmandude it's a game and is meant to be fun. But I have a feeling that few people realize what fun is anymore. I personally think that there are plently od achievements, reputation, skills and much more to keep the average gamer occupied for some time. Unless you play wow for an insane amount of time every day I think there is plenty to keep people busy. But people that let the game comsume their lives of course it's not going to be enough, because that's all they do. They are the type of persona that will get of work and play till dawn or have a day off work and play from the time they wake to the time they go back to bed. So with that being said I thing peope are just expecting too much.

I really don't understand the problem. The game has a large number of activities to engage in: pve, pvp, trade skills, reputation, achievements etc..  If you are sooo uber and have maxed out all of them then find a new hobby; **** happens.  The game isn't meant to be a validation tool for people who's only aim is to acquire gear and feel above the next guy. It's a game, remember. FUN that's what it is meant to be. If you want to feel better than the guy next door go do something that actually makes you better like saving children from burning buildings or giving away your worldly possessions to a charity. For pete's sake wtf! lol

  To the guy talking about no life i have one plus a husband and family to take care of always get my RL stuff done before playing. I wasnt the one complaining about it being easy it was the 25th guild that is complaining we were just posting our feelings on the subject.

I see a couple of these post about giving the game away and the game being to easy catering to the scrubs. Wtf you the hard core players with no life think blizz should cater to you? You guys cover 10-20% of there sales the other 80% of who play a game to enjoy it to have fun is who they should be catering to. I never complain the game is to hard as a matter of fact its easy as compaired to eq but I enjoy it. I enjoy playing after a hard day at work or finishing up a college assignment. You self absorbed jackasses need to go to a game that caters to your lack of a life. Vanguard, Everquest, and Everquest 2. Let us enjoy our game with out your dam whining you points are invalid and mean jack **** too me. Quit busting Blizzards balls they again came out with another great expansion expanding upon the warcraft universe. You should be greatful that Blizzard listens to their community and tries so hard to keep us happy. You could go to Sony game where they don't give a **** at all.

I don't see any reason to complain about how fast you level... they can only come up with so many quests and they have to design the game for being 80 "around" when you're going to start running out of quests... so my suggestion is to read all the quest text, work on your profession, and make the best of the game rather than JUST grinding quests and instance quests.

I don't think a guild like 25th beating all the content means the game is too easy... the content wouldn't be released if it couldn't be beaten, and the thing about these guilds is that if it can be beaten they will beat it...

the only problem I have with them beating it is that now we're probably going to hear people whine about running out of content. they do this to themselves. The game is not, and should not, be designed for the less than a percent of people that like to blast through content.

and to answer someone's earlier question "are we supposed to just work on achievements until the next set of content comes out?"... the answer is yes, they very OBVIOUSLY put the achievements system in as an alternate cool time sink that would feel rewarding (if only aesthetically). It's a very neat idea, and I think it's really fun to try and get the achievements done. Also there are a BILLION other things you can do at 80

collect mounts

collect pets

pvp*****

work on an alt

work on your professions

make money

work on reputation

my point is the game has a lot more content, and a lot more things to do, than just what you see on the surface... so chill out, blizz knows what it's doing, and when it doesn't they always fix it... (except druids at 70... they didn't fix that till xpac)

@Ladylori, yeah you were clearing gruuls and mags cause those are really hard. Then you got into BT (post uber nerf? place was a joke after 3.0)

@SanityStolen, Yeah lots of people are going into it extremely geared, the zones are really easy (I'm 80 already). But you have to think about someone who is just starting out in the game. They get to 70, start northrend, and they have quest greens and maybe some instance blues on. They don't have BT/Hyjal gear or even kara epics. They have to keep the game tuned low enough for average players to still be able to quest and level through the game.

On the topic of this, the fact that they were able to clear the heroic versions of the raids, as well as doing it likely a teir set or three lower than was intended does make me think that the content is easier than it should be. Surely clearing the content so much in beta gave them an upperhand, especially on the three drakes part (such as strats), that doesn't make up for the fact that they did it in BC epics.

The content in beta wasn't opened up right away, and these guys had the time to acquire better gear before they could even do the content.